作者 主题: 如果说要整一个打起来特别有动作感的规则,换你怎么写?有什么想法或建议?  (阅读 1087 次)

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离线 履灰

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把基础招式整一整,写成带消耗的格式(类似灵能/域能什么的),加上架势,弄一个有回合外动作的体系,愿意的话再搞搞部位破坏什么的,应该差不多了【。
我记得以前原创区有人提过一个类似于小招试探造优然后打大招的机制,某种程度上有点像DND4e,但是更复杂。

主要还是格斗规则适用的场景很有限啊……只为了处理擂台战或者小规模斗殴而写这么详细的规则,除非是剧情上有很多这种场景并且战斗细节会影响剧情发展的,否则我觉得有些得不偿失【。
训练已经要累死了不能让我在跑团的时候当个超人吗.jpg

离线 早上好蓝天

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按你这么一说倒是…… 不过搏斗不单拳头,也有刀剑丫!还可以上个+5带火拳套啥的。

其实比起真正的斗士,这套玩法的核心乐趣应该是热爱吹逼把!就像喜欢看海虎、刃牙、看ufc然后想提高自己纯度的,和真正练的很溜的人的区别(我觉得所有人都可以热爱吹!)

让我把几个核心的,其他人没怎么讲过的概念捋一捋看看能不能扩展一下思路,我觉得很多规则其实没有把这些说到点上:

UFC一开始都是双方摸清楚对方举例、看对方什么明显反应等,不断试探找到一个“这里我能极大获利”,或是“他没底了!”的反应,然后暴击。

虚假距离是类似身体前倾让自己看起来“更近”的小动作,一下子摸不准距离就会打空、导致打乱节奏、导致过度延展攻势破绽百出、导致便于反击等,击剑也有这个概念在里面。假如对方以为他可以打倒,就会过度延展,假如我做虚假距离,我就有更大的空间回防、反击、施展假动作。

假动作和篮球里面很像,多少职业选手被骗过?错误应对导致防御大开,出其不意,骗他动作,制造出视觉死角和迫使对方调整重心等。

培养反应就是对你接下来怎么反应产生了预期,好比前倾摸一下就是准备下潜抱腿,那么即便是只做一次假动作对方也可能会把这记录到他的“自动反应系统”里面(他摸了!准备防摔!),因为动作太快了,0.145秒比反应速度都快,导致都是能预读尽可能预读:于是这也是可以被利用的。

控制恐惧:职业选手打的非常痛,一旦打出伤了,人会下意识地怕,然后去非常侧重的一是格外防御那部分,导致动作更明显、更倾向于作出该种预防、更担心那块地方(忘了别的地方),二是身体会做出代偿行为,通过调动其他部分保护痛点,导致动作有变,更容易撕开进攻的口子。

进攻压力:拳打过来人会感到一种巨大的压力,出于防御、重心、挑选机会、观察、熟悉状况种种原因会被逼着后退,这样就进入了对方的进攻节奏,导致受牵制、容易被逼到墙角、压力极大防御逐渐打开。

动作势能就是类似左直拳然后接右勾拳,跟转陀螺差不多,运力之后威力更大;剑势也是这样。

奇异角度(如死角、发力薄弱侧、站姿不稳固侧、视觉死角)主要是防摔、柔术方面用的多。

还有很多很有趣的概念没提及!并且都非常非常酷炫。。~!希望格斗、剑术、柔术爱好者们也分享一下有趣的概念!我觉得很多写规则/房规/私设的人一旦了解了这些概念,就能做出非常酷炫的设计来!只是缺个引荐介绍。
« 上次编辑: 2022-08-22, 周一 11:52:33 由 早上好蓝天 »
其实开团把PC当成小猫咪就行了,这里用逗猫棒,那里打打闹闹让她咬,给点吃的喝点水,摸摸头然后贴贴,撸猫也要顺毛呀。碳酸汽水10极简轻规则 [nofollow]+其他资源:
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离线 月伶

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可以看看《七海II》的決鬥規則,TROW有,但建議不要抄它的機制,很不順。這邊的建議是保留風格化描述的空間、盡量整理出大部分格鬥的共通動作或策略,並給不同類型的格鬥技一種特殊動作發揮(這方面也可以參考《電馭叛客》)

比如七海是把決鬥簡化成揮砍、格擋、佯攻、突刺、重擊、反擊,加上每個流派的特殊動作,同樣的動作不能連續使用,一回合有多少動作則是依檢定結果決定

离线 悠久机关

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你是不是在找:形意棋

离线 adoubi

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那么用战术地图啊,惯用手非惯用手、武器触及的范围、角色朝向、视野的盲区和盲斗的减值,结合攻击部位的减值与技法赎买掉这些劣势(也就是可以编辑出专攻对方罩门动作),移动时根据不同身体姿态移动消耗
这些还不够嘛?
这些恰恰就是只有凡人互殴才会去费尽心思抠的“几点加值减值” …… :em006 :em006
何止是“够”,简直多的让人眼花。
但“多”并不代表有趣……这些加减值越钻研只会越让人感到痛苦,并不会想楼主预想的一样,“会产生一种很强的代入感,由于吹逼太爽了,导致这种打斗本身就是很爽的”。因为这种东西研究十几个小时也根本比不上穿套结实的护甲,拿把手枪,或者在凡人互殴的前提下,单纯的多买4级战斗技能……这些武术东西的应用空间就和现实武术一样,太狭窄了,实际上没有多少团是像mma擂台那样两个水平和身体素质相近的角色裸体互殴的,大多数团这些技术根本没有用武之地,研究只是徒增烦恼。 :em020

离线 水瓶盖•迷惘记忆•八哥大王I世

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不会好玩的,除非你整的是万智牌而不是DND.jpg 如果考虑到万智牌还都是妥协过的产物....我只能说理查加菲是数学博士,所以总要找机会整个会把人烧脑到当机的玩意出来可以理解,毕竟谁能忍的住这种诱惑呢?但为什么一些我估计压根不是啥练家子的人也会犯这种病呢?
2C2D最高7L,我果然就是弱鸡么.....

离线 Mounrou

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...Umm, you don't brawl that much, do you? Well, me neither, just saying.

I mean, a "real fight game". That's pretty much what I've been doing for the past decade, and I think in terms of "real fight" at least as far as games do, I do think I kinda get it somewhat accurate in terms of street brawls.

Problem is, "real fights" ain't fun. It's literally on the other side of that scale.


Seriously, fencing? It's a duel. Duels have rules. Loads and loads and loads of rules, the most important of which are 1)You can't run away and stab the other guy later tonight, and 2)You can't have your buddies stoned the other guy to death when he's not looking. And that's just medieval where you're allowed to kill.

So's UFC. Actually UFCs have more rules than dueling. That octagon is just that big, and you can't even grapple forever like the Gracies used to do (mainly cause seeing two dudes prone and holding each other in their arms are not what this targeted audience want for this type of "action", and it gets boring quick.)

Both of which actually exist is a complete dimension from what TRPG fights are supposed to be BTW: As in clean, controlled environments vs the chaos of squad-based killing battles.

Those things are as much games as TRPG fighting is... But that's what makes them good.



I mean, what's in a "real fight"?

-You're so tense your vision range shrinks to about as big as doom-guy.
-You don't get to plan much. You just don't have the time and the consequences are too big for the vast majority of time if you don't just snap and go.
-You have no idea what the others will do. Half the things you do are just reactive and the other half hoping you'd knock them out.
-You get knock out either never or from one hit, and you'll never be sure which one that'll be.
-You don't get to be a hero. Two-on-one is enough to get your ass kicked, and 3+ is hopeless unless you run. And they always come at you where you can't see them.
-Things get move around so much you really don't get to do much other than charge and swing.
-It lasted 3 seconds. You might trash talk each other for hours before and after, but the actual fight lasted 3 seconds.

...So what's so fun about that?



On the flip side, what makes TRPG combat fun is precisely because of the gamism aspect.
>You have omnipotent POV, you always know where what are.
>You clearly understand what's coming next, and you can plan for it with all the time in the world.
>When you miss, it because luck's not on your side and not because you made mistakes. And you always get some accomplishment out of it unlike the real thing of which usually everybody loses.
>The way combat were designed meant you'll never be in a position that you're just chasing your opponent without ever getting close, and then you're out of breath and got knocked out by one hit. (ie. Looking like a drunken idiot.)



So, TRPG combats are usually pretty good in designs already. If you want it to be more "technical", you can just add descriptions like a kung fu movie.

...Come to think of it, that literally what the game Wushu does. Win and describe how cool you look doing it.
And for actual techniques, 3R&4E is actually pretty great there. You can even call having great fights it's whole point. (Book of the Nine Swords anyone?)
Or if you're looking for dueling specifically, well, The Riddle of Steel (or successors like Blade of the Iron Throne/Song of Swords/Sword & Scoundrel)? I mean that game was created by the president of HEMA himself.
Or, if you REALLY like number crunching but not GURPS, HERO have quite a bit of martial art stuffs and even more number crunching.
« 上次编辑: 2022-08-22, 周一 23:29:27 由 Mounrou »
我用不來中文輸入法,所以我只能手寫中文字
在電腦上打中文字相比起英文而言大概要花我10倍的時間,而且會累死我。 >3< (Which has no point when people just skip it anyhow.)
所以,除非這事情非常非常重要,否則我一般只會用英文。
如果你看不懂英文,非常重要時我會盡可能嘗試去打中文。 -w-b
( Except Grammar Nazis cause, you know, THEY'RE RELATED TO NAZIS!!! And pretty impolite to boot too. =_+\ )

离线 早上好蓝天

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God damn Mounrou your the man,  thats the shit Ive been looking for LOL thanks my dude
thats A great point wat youve just said there,  hey learning A lot from you,  thanks A ton.
IDK,karvmaga and muaythai, also fights breakdowns have taught me lots interesting things was gonna apply to the design,  thx for showing me the bigger picture
其实开团把PC当成小猫咪就行了,这里用逗猫棒,那里打打闹闹让她咬,给点吃的喝点水,摸摸头然后贴贴,撸猫也要顺毛呀。碳酸汽水10极简轻规则 [nofollow]+其他资源:
劇透 -   :
四千张跑团地图,  网团工具 [nofollow]健康 [nofollow]高效学习 [nofollow]读书笔记 [nofollow]讲好故事 [nofollow]玩家类型理论玩家类型调查问卷! [nofollow],战斗精神+全面对抗与心理战规则插件 [nofollow]
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离线 猪之哀伤

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动作感这个概念的主观程度过高,于是具有动作感的规则很难产生有卵用的讨论

离线 LANG

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就算是格斗,不同格斗流派要考虑的东西都不一样
比如柔术 是 拖入地面 过腿 布局 完成控制 这样一个流程,那么他和一个距离控制风格的泰拳手怎么用一个规则?泰拳手的思考是重扫距离,拳击距离 ,箍颈距离,我是进一步改变距离,还是直接这个距离发动攻击?是打下段削弱对手移动,还是摇一下打一个上段KO?