純美蘋果園
TRPG討論區 => 研討區 => 3版 討論區 => 主题作者是: 阿殺 于 2008-10-29, 周三 02:02:51
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有爬过大致文章但是大部分都是跟武僧的极速有关
所以想询问且确定一下
变身后的武僧根据爬文是可以极速连击后接天生武器
那如果是一个精通徒手攻击的角色
能不能使用徒手攻击的BAB后接天生武器攻击呢?
例如 熊战士
变身为熊后 假设BAB有16
那是否能有 16/11/6/1 然后接熊的天生武器 2爪1咬的攻击呢?
如果可以那后面的天生武器攻击减值是从最高的扣还是最低的?另外所扣的命中会叠加吗
例如2爪-5 咬就变成-10
另问就是单纯使用徒手攻击的话副手该怎算呢?如同双武器的算法吗?
以上问题希望能有巨巨们帮忙回答!感谢万分!
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后加的只能是一次次要天生武器攻击，也就是一次最高AB-5的攻击。比如牛头怪在巨斧全回合连砍完了以后还能追加一次AB-5的角顶攻击。
武僧的急速和双武器怎么相互作用到现在官方也没一个固定的解释，总是变来变去的。所以这问题就留给开团的DM自己判好了。
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from Rules of the Game - Unarmed Attacks (Part 2)
Unarmed Strikes and Natural Weapons
Just as a creature can add weapon attacks to a full attack made with natural weapons, so too can it combine unarmed attacks with natural weapons. Two options are available to accomplish this task.
A creature can choose to treat its unarmed attacks as its primary attacks and its natural weapons as secondary attacks. (This method is normally used to add weapon attacks to a natural attack routine.) The creature must make all unarmed attacks with its primary limb, which prevents that hand from being used for a natural attack such as a claw or slam. It uses its full base attack bonus for the natural attack, gaining additional attacks as normal for a high base attack bonus, and adds its full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Of course, each of these attacks provokes an attack of opportunity if the target is unarmed (unless the creature has Improved Unarmed Strike). However, its natural weapons all become secondary attacks, taking the -5 penalty on attack rolls (or -2 with the Multiattack feat) and adding only half the monster's Strength bonus on damage rolls.
A simpler method is to treat the creature's unarmed attack as an off-hand attack. (After all, an unarmed strike is rarely as effective as a weapon attack would be, so it doesn't really merit the same level of priority in the average monster's attack array.) Instead of using its primary limb to deliver the unarmed attack, it uses a kick, head butt, or other appendage that isn't otherwise used to deliver a natural attack. The creature gains one unarmed strike, which deals damage appropriate to its size plus half its Strength bonus (since it's an off-hand attack). A creature using this method suffers a -4 penalty on all attacks (since it's effectively fighting with two weapons and its off-hand weapon is light). The damage for its natural attacks is unchanged. This method requires fewer calculations on the fly, so it's probably easier to use in play.
Let's look at the nalfeshnee for an example of how each of these methods would work in play.
A nalfeshnee using the first method would have three unarmed attacks (thanks to its base attack bonus of +14). Applying its size modifier, and Strength modifier, the nalfeshnee's total attack modifiers for its three natural attacks are +19, +14, and +9. These natural attacks each deal 1d6+7 points of nonlethal damage. Each of the nalfeshnee's natural weapons takes a -2 penalty for a secondary natural weapon (thanks to the nalfeshnee's Multiattack feat) and gains only half the nalfeshnee's Strength modifier to damage, which gives it two secondary attacks, as follows: one bite +18 (2d8+3) and one claw +17 (1d8+3); it loses one claw attack in order to make unarmed attacks with its primary limb.
Using the second method, the nalfeshnee's natural attacks are made at a -4 penalty (bite +16, 2 claws +13) but deal normal damage. It then makes one unarmed attack at +15 (+14 for base attack bonus, -2 for size, +7 for Strength, -4 for off-hand light weapon) that deals 1d6+3 points of nonlethal damage.
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感謝兩位巨巨們的解釋>_<
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另外, 疾风是不能和其它天武同时用的.
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另外, 疾风是不能和其它天武同时用的.
这个是说我在徒手打完疾风后,就不能再继续用天武当次级武器打吗?
还是说不能用天武代替徒手开疾风? :em008
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不能, faq还是rotg说过, 因为疾风只能使用徒手或者和尚武器, 而徒手外的天武明显不属于这个范围.
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么么...那个再麻烦一下:em004
那就是说我的和尚如果变成动物的话...就不能开疾风打了
因为动物的身上都上天武...?
另外,比如说荒野行者的那个原始之吼.能获得1D6的啮咬
因为书上说全轮攻击时可以使用啮咬进行额外攻击，啮咬承受－５作为次要武器...
我的问题就是...我的和尚有这个进阶...那我打完疾风..是不是能用这个啮咬作额外攻击
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和尚变身的话，猛虎铁砂掌和凶暴熊后旋踢为什么就不能用了咧？
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功夫熊猫，嚯哈！ :em014
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我糊涂了 :em008
这样吧...和尚2德鲁伊8...变成凶暴狮全回合有几下
那个是这样吗:疾风3下+作为次级武器的两下爪抓+作为再次武器的一口啮咬?
如果不是...那是如何呢? :em002
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3疾风+1抓或者+1咬。实际上这真的还不如冲过去2抓1咬2耙抓的全回合……
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哦...那我应该算是明白了 :em004
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3疾风+1抓或者+1咬。实际上这真的还不如冲过去2抓1咬2耙抓的全回合……
没疾风哟.
疾风和其它天武不兼容.
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You can’t use a dagger with a flurry of blows at all. When
you use the flurry ability, you must attack with either unarmed
strikes or with special monk weapons. Only six of the latter are
included in the Player’s Handbook (kama, nunchaku,
quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). A natural weapon
(any natural weapon) is neither an unarmed strike nor a special
monk weapon, so you can’t use it along with a flurry.
FAQ
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2和尚8dru变狮子后可以2拳+3天武or3拳疾风. 这拳是指和尚的拳头的数据, 天武则用天武的数据.
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2拳+一爪+一咬+两耙?
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。。。这一段不是这个意思。
它是指你不能用natural weapons进行flurry。比如，2 claws，你不能用flurry变成3 claws。
这与manufatured weapon / unarmed strike全回合后再加一记natural weapon是两回事。
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A natural weapon
(any natural weapon) is neither an unarmed strike nor a special
monk weapon, so you can’t use it along with a flurry.
along with a flurry.
不是with a flurry
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所以还是2拳+一爪+一咬+两耙吧?
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For example, an 8th-level lizardfolk monk with a Strength score of 17 has a base attack bonus of +7 (+1 for its 2 humanoid Hit Dice and +6 for its monk levels). The character has three natural weapons: two claws (1d4) and one bite (1d4). For this example, we'll assume the character also has the Multiattack feat.
With the full attack action, our example monk can make two unarmed attacks thanks to its +7 base attack bonus. After adding in the +3 bonus from the monk's Strength score of 17, our example character's unarmed attacks have the following attack bonuses: +10/+5. Thanks to the monk's class level and Strength score, damage for the unarmed strikes is 1d10+3.
The example monk also can attack with its claws and bite as secondary natural attacks at a -2 penalty (thanks to the character's Multiattack feat). Each natural weapon uses the character's +7 base attack bonus and +3 Strength modifier, except that the Strength bonus on damage is halved because these are secondary attacks: 2 claws +8 (1d4+1) and bite +8 (1d4+1).
As noted last week, there are no two-weapon or off-hand penalties for these attacks.
The example monk cannot use a flurry of blows because a flurry doesn't work with natural weaponry.
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A natural weapon
(any natural weapon) is neither an unarmed strike nor a special
monk weapon, so you can’t use it along with a flurry.
natural weapon can’t use it along with a flurry.就已经说明了，疾风和天武攻击不共戴天。
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我认为可以flurry，3拳+1爪+1咬+2耙，所有攻击ab-2
至于所引用的原文，建议把握下整个段落的意思，不要断章取义
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原文不是说得很清楚了么, 例子中的战蜥人不能使用flurry因为flurry和na不兼容.
正常流程大概应该是这样: 主要武器2拳 -0/-5, 次级武器1咬2抓-5, 如果是冲锋而且咬的那一口擒抱成功的话还可以2rake...
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如果冲锋的话，狮子一定要咬的那一口擒抱成功才能两耙抓？
PS：前面ALAND引用的一大段就是说明疾风和其他武器攻击都不可以一起进行，因为正在讨论天武问题，所以特别划出那一段，可不是断章取义哦 :em001
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The example monk cannot use a flurry of blows because a flurry doesn't work with natural weaponry.
这条是有效的没错。
于是没什么问题了。
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A monster that has the rake ability must begin its turn
grappling to use its rake. It can’t begin a grapple and rake
during the same turn unless it has the pounce ability or some
other ability that allows it to start a grapple and rake during
the same turn.
RC :em006
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RC阿，猫科动物们都要哭了。。。这不就等于直接推翻了Pounce (Ex): If a lion charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.嘛
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对-_-...规则上有冲突以RC为准.........
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RC阿，猫科动物们都要哭了。。。这不就等于直接推翻了Pounce (Ex): If a lion charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.嘛
根本没推翻啊……
unless it has the pounce ability
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但是现在需要过擒抱了呀-_-...
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恩...这样清楚了
没有徒手的时候就没有疾风
然后狮子和尚的全回合就是...两拳两爪加一咬...咬中再顺势一个擒抱...抱住后再两下rank :em028
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但是伤害不够班.......
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只有the AD才够班！
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么么...是啊 :em004
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是两拳,一爪加一咬,咬中擒抱过再接两耙.只有一爪是因为另一只爪用来徒手攻击了:)
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和尚的徒手分明可以用屁股着地平沙落雁式 :em001
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那都是AD式！
我不能想象出一只一边屁股落地平沙落雁一边连抓带咬的狮子 :em005
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不過用天武打的同時,为什麼不可以用徒手攻击?
最小可以用AD式 :em006
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Instead of using its primary limb to deliver the unarmed attack,it uses kick, head butt, or other appendage that isn't otherwise used to deliver a natural attack. The creature gains one unarmed strike, which deals damage appropriate to its size plus half its Strength bonus (since it's an off-hand attack). A creature using this method suffers a -4 penalty on all attacks (since it's effectively fighting with two weapons and its off-hand weapon is light). The damage for its natural attacks is unchanged.
其实这里就能满足AD的愿望,脚踹,头击,或者屁股落地平沙落雁随你选.攻击时先是狮子全套天武攻击,两抓一咬,咬到抓住两耙,最后跟上一下屁股落地平沙落雁,恩,很有功夫熊猫的感觉.不过所有攻击都要AB-4不利,那下徒臀攻击也只能有一半力量加值,算作是副手武器了
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不不不, 我说的不是这个, 而是和尚的拳头.
楼上贴的是修了Improved Unarmed Attack的普通职业(没和尚职业的). 和尚的拳头可以是身体的任意一部分.
Part 3那个战蜥人不就是个很好的例子, bab+7, -0/-5 2拳, -2 2爪, 一咬(1/2 str, 次级武器).
不过话说回来, 那分明是2个Methods呀-_- 用哪种自然得看DM的判断...